Well, as per several sources, I'm sure you all know now that Matthew Stafford has been drafted #1 overall by the Detroit Lions.
I can say that, personally, I will still follow Aaron Curry as I think he'll have a heck of a career. The good news for Lions fans is that if Stafford wants to see half of the money it will be reported he signed for, he's going to have to do pretty darned good -- which will mean the Lions offense is humming!
Here's hoping!!
Still have 6 picks to go for the Lions -- 2 tomorrow (or more if they trade down).
Lots of excitement here to go!!
As I indicated, I'll be coaching the little-pink Lions in Soccer tomorrow, then having family over after the games. Not sure how much/when I'll be in -- but I want everyone to leave their thoughts and impressions through the morning, and through the draft on here in the comments. It will be interesting to come back and see what we were all thinking in a few years.
Hopefully, the Lions will be playoff bound then!! BTW - I will look at details of contracts for players -- particularly Stafford -- when I get them from NetRat sometime in the coming weeks. So I don't want to hear anything about money til the details are out -- because we all know the media and agents hype up the biggest inflated numbers, which usually aren't what is likely to be earned.
Go Lions!!!
41 comments:
The Stafford pick is a HUGE signing, at least the first reports.
The six year deal can be worth 78 million with 41.5 guaranteed.
I really thought the Lions wanted to keep the guaranteed cash under $40 and near $36 million. What happened to leverage? I hope this isn't the case, and that the guaranteed is less than reported.
With a QB in the fold, should the Lions protect him and go Cleveland Browns on everyone's ass? Will we see a DT or LB at #20, or will we see the Joe Thomas/Brady Quinn replay of two years ago performed by the Lake Erie Warriors?
Again, I personally would go with defense, but I can understand the need to protect your investment now that the commitment is made. Jeff Backus really has to be happy right now. He is going to be one of the richest LG's in the NFL, without ever playing the position (if the Lions draft a LT).
I could see the Lions going LB with #20 and back to a C/G hybrid like Max Unger. If Michael Oher is available at #20 though, he will be hard to pass. Especially if Rey Manaluaga and James Laurinitis are both gone.
I think the Lions will try waiting for Laurinitis at #33, but what happens if he is gone? Do they "reach" for Clint Sintrim like they did for Jordan Dizon a year ago???? It will be interesting to see what happens in the first day. Here's to our Lions and their new QB. Now that he's here, support it or go kiss a Vik-Queen!
I will continue to support the Lions, but I think they committed way to much money for Stafford. I am just not sold on him. I think Culpepper was serviceable, but the defense is not. I am stunned that so many people will now want the #20 pick to be Oher, another offensive player with all of the cash at LT already tied up with Backus. With so many needs, taking Curry for less money would have immediately bolstered the D. My fear now is what happens if the Lions don't fair so well next year (especially since all signs suggest Stafford sits for a year)and end up with another top 5 or top 10 pick? Too much money tied up with Stafford. Also, Mayhew, Lewand, and Schwartz have thrust themselves into a local PR nightmare with public sentiment wanting Curry. Like I said, I'll still be rooting for the Lions, but I do not have a good feeling about this. I hope Stafford proves me wrong.
Hosslions
Well there goes my mock draft out the window. We can only hope that the guys in charge, that have been watching film and workouts for months, know what they're doing. Now I'm rooting for Stafford 100%. Lets hope he turns out to be a year over year pro bowl qb.
I don't think that Oher is going to be there at 20, and I think that if the Lions are going to upgrade the o-line, that it will be with a top centre or guard.
I wonder if taking Stafford #1 means the Lions might consider taking Massaquoi with their second pick in the 3rd to give Stafford a familiar target.
If the Lions get Laurinaitis in this draft, I'll be a lot happier. I think he'll be solid.
Lopper
I'm speechless.
I'm hoping that the 40 million dollar mark Condon wanted was for a 5 year contract and that the Lions signed Stafford to 6 years for 41 million; that at least makes sense. Add a year to the contract to make it LOOK bigger.
The Lions must have been really sold on Stafford when he came to visit. All I have to say is that the dude better deliver.
As I said about the money -- these initial reports ALWAYS inflate the values so the agent looks good -- and they are rounded up.
Most reliable info I have right nwo states that it is 41.7 mil guaranteed, with 72 mil for decent playing time, 78 mil if he is essentially a pro-bowler.
I have also heard that a big initial sticking point was 5yrs vs 6yrs -- the Lions wanted 6. If you look at 1.7 mil over the initial numbers floated about of 40 mil 5 yrs, you can see the Lions DID get a lot of value in their hardball negotiations -- an additional year for about 1.7 mil.
Not bad! Ryan went at 3 vs #1 overall. #1 usually has about 10% minimum increase over #3 for same position -- agent will try for 15% or more. There was a 10% increase in the cap.
So 20 - 25% increase is what the standard would be. Ryan at 36 million guranteed with 72 million possible. Matt with roughly 42 million guaranteed and 78 million total.
The guarnateed money went up less than 17% and the total value only went up 8.3%.
When you look at it that way, you can see why Condon didn't want to sign on the deal, and that Mayhew did, in fact, do quite well in comparison to what the demands and expectations were to start out with from the player/agent side.
yes, the rookie pay scale is broken. But within the current context, the Lions did quite well. I also am curious as to the structure, as that can be very important as well.
I'm Ok with the pick. In my opinion nobody in this dreft stepped up to prove the case that they could have a bigger impact on the Lions than a QB. The other thing that nobody has talked about is how much smarter is Swartz than his predecessors.
A QB is not going to be real effective until his 3rd year. A coach typically has to show they can win by year 3 or they are out.
Morningweg didn't want Harrington in his 2nd year because he knew he was going to loose bin in that season and he wouldn't have enough time to turn it around to keep his job. Marriucci, was stuck with Harrington, and when he went out to try to get to Garcia, it was too little too late. Marrenelli (really Martz) did not believe he needed a top flight QB.
Look at the Colts and Payton Manning they lost a lot of games with Manning year 1, in year 2 he was a lot better and he was separating himself as one of the best in his 3rd year.
Swartz know next year will be rough. But he has a big advantage, if he wins 3 games it's a lot better than last season. Swartz has time to develop a QB, but he has to start now. He has to get the best player available to him to be his QB in 3 years. And that is Matt Stafford.
The contract is big, but it was going to be pretty big no matter what when you have the #1 pick. Even if you took Curry with the #1 pick and took a QB at #20 or a QB with next years #1, your going to tie somebody up with pretty big QB dollars, and still have Curry.
So what's next in the draft. Most people say Maualuga with the #20 pick. But I think they may skip him, address the trenches and try top get Laurinaitis with #33. But if Maualuga is gone at #20 then they will take Laurinaitis with that pick. Either way I think it is Laurinaitis.
Sure hope the are able to add a MLB today. That would mark the first time in forever they had a legit MLB and QB (assuming Stafford is legit -and based on these guys doing their homework I am guessing/praying he is). Would LOVELOVE big Rey Maualuga at 20 but I think he is gone by 15, but not if the football gods hear my prayers. ~IBJACKIEMOON
JJ,
I believe that QB shouldn't have even been in the mix for the draft today. The Lions fail as usual. If they were looking at getting a QB it should have been on day two or finding another vet.
New regime same thinking. At least they have proven coaches this time around. I mean even Scott L. our OC made Daunte a pro-bowler before maybe he can make our new medicore QB look like one too.
Lik
WOW
I wrote it---and didn't catch it. The Lions did make a good deal, and I missed it. Like detfan said, it's a SIX year deal, not a FIVE year deal. I wrote that in my post, but didn't comprehend it.
Let's see who is available at #20.
The rest of the draft is pretty wide open; I can't wait to see who the Lions take at 20 and 33! I'll be watching the next 18 picks with baited breath.
Whats awesome about having the QB out of the way is that now the Lions only need one position that usually requires a top 10 pick to get a superstar: Left Tackle. Whats doubly awesome is that this year's LT draft is so deep, there COULD be a superstar still there at 20.
And if a top flight LT isn't available by then, then you'd have to assume that there's going to be a killer MLB still available since the draft is so deep in THAT position as well this year.
Big interior linemen are kinda few and far between this year unfortunately. The Lions' selection is limited to larger guys as they want to get bigger, but all but on or two higher rated guys at this position are smaller than what the Lions probably want. I don't think we'll see this position taken at 20, but maybe at 33 this year if a Peria Jerry or someone or equal size is still available.
It's a happy coincidence for the Lions that two of their three large positions of need are so deep this year. They can wait to see who is left and take the best player available between MLB LT and DT. I -think- that all else considered equal, the Lions will go for a good, big Left Tackle, then get a MLB or DT with the 33rd pick, again BPA.
Past that, it's all day 2 stuff which guys can be pleasant surprises but you can't expect them to be instant starters; they're usually projects. Maybe the Lions can get a sweet Tight End here though; that would be great.
Well we need defense before this pick and we still need defense now so I hope that we draft defense the rest of the way.
2 questions for you guys on the east coast I seen many USC games and some OSU games I like both Rey Maualuga and James Laurinaitis but, why has Laurinaitis dropped in the mocks? #2 why do you guy's like James Laurinaitis better than Maualuga?
LionWing19
Next year who does Mel Kiper tell the Lions to pick?
Sigh. So I guess that means Daunte is gone after this year, no matter how well he plays or chemistry he gets with CJ. Don't understnad killer's comments about the deal and rolling over.They don't make sense.
I’m done venting I’m ok with the Stafford pick and here’s why. First round is a 50-50 % chance of success so who knows it’s a crap shoot.
I do know this that Jim Schwartz, Scott Linehan and Gunther Cunningham know more about football, evaluating talent, and football talent than I do. I also know that Scott Linehan knows what type of QB that will fit/ work in his system as well. Look at Culpepper and his first year he sat the pine in Minnesota and in his second year he took the starting job. I see this as Stafford will learn his first year and sit the pine and than his 2nd year he will either win the starting job or sit the pine again.
I know this is hard for us to grasp that we need to trust our coaching staff and management because of the past but, I feel that the past is the past and I do trust in our staff and management.
Go Lions and draft Defense. I hope this works.
LionWing19
DetFan,
Great breakdown of the money.
I am glad to see at least us here on our blog being positive and cheering for Stafford regardless of how we felt about Curry. He is our newest Lion regardless!! I really hope they don't boo Stafford in New York today, that would upset me. I'm in Pa, and I now regret not going there to support Stafford knowing there is a chance he may get boo'd.
Anyone still down about not picking Curry:
PLEASE READ TY from Lions in Winter's article:
http://thelionsinwinter.blogspot.com/2009/04/time-of-reckoning-is-at-hand.html
It is a MUST READ! I never really thought about it but he is completley right about how much Curry would be bringing to the table, getting paid that much to bring it to the table, but we wouldn't be using it all but paying him for it. Read and you'll understand.
Here's to a great draft today!
Personally hoping we get lucky and Malaluga falls to us at 20 or Laurinitis at 33!
Lion Wing
I am on board right now. The Manauluga vs Laurinitis thing is simple. The reason people like one over the other is --- no one knows.
Sorry, but that is it. No one knows who will be better in the middle in the NFL. Lions fans remember another OSU linebacker that was an "Animal" (pun intended) in Chris Spielman. Others point to Rey having terrific teammates on the Trojan Hill and say, he can't be that good because he is a product of his coaching staff.
I like both. I think both are lights out and hit like trucks. I think Laurinitis will play better on the new Lions defense in the middle, I think Rey would've played better as a SAM with his skill set. With Peterson coming over from Seattle, I think it's Laurinitis. My personal opinion, but if they wait 'til #33, he may be gone.
...aaaand Lions fans embarrass themselves yet again buy wearing paper bags over their heads and booing relentlessly when the Lions draft a player.
WOW - first off, my power is out (I'm viting fmaily for a bit - who have power before heading home) so no idea if I'll have any more updates today.
My WOW is for the Jets -- Mike Tannenbaum's new name is Matt Millen. Jets gave up their 1st (#17) their 2nd (#52 or 53) AND 3 players -- 1 starter, 1 rotational d-lineman, and a young QB -- to select Marck Sanchez at #3. With the Stafford deal and the Ryan deal paving the way from last year, they will also be shelling out probably 38 mil or more -- depending if they negotiate as well as Lewand and Mayhew did.
Aaron Curry to Seattle at #4 was easy to see coming, and he will replace Peterson there on the outside. Good for him!
Amazed Raiders didn't take Crabtree -- not surprised 49ers did. 2 WR so far taken means goo chance of a LB, DT, or OT slipping to Lions at 20...
Raji and Jackson the only Dline off the board, and on pick 11 so at least one of the guys the Lions wants will be there at 20...
I'm thinking 20 or 33 get traded, but it depends on what they get offered.
Depsite what NYJets gave up for #3 -- it is not even close on the outdated "value chart". Looks like teams have ditched it -- wonder how long before the national media figures that out?
Oh yeah, Peter King -- please check sources, background, and where negotiations started, and what the agents were expecting out of the #1 overall deal before saying the Lions paid too much! Sheesh -- clueless knee-jerk reactions.
Don Banks' comments were much better -- and make more sense. If Linehan and Schwartz are as smart as they seem, Stafford won't see the field til he's good and ready -- which may not be 2009 -- and that is the way it should be.
It'll be tough fellows, but we'll have to get used to this having an actual professional front office and coaching staff.
JJ -- excellent points on teh QB and I think you are spot on. I also trust Mayhews instincts -- look at what Mayhew got for Roy, and what Cleveland and Arizona have been unable to get for Braylon Edwards and Anquan Boldin -- comparable WR.
Schwartz and Linehan wanted Stafford, and he fits Linehan's preferred QB mold. IF Daunte does well this season, he will be re-signed, and it will push Stafford to beat him out and all the better!
BTW- Bills go Maybin at DE! They currently don't even have a LT and they passed on Oher... Maybe there is something I'm not seeing with him...
Just one more team not taking a player Lions want -- so one more player they want sliding down...!!
Go Lions!!
For those at home with no power (He, he):
1. DET-QB Stafford
2. STL OT Jason Smith
3. KC DE Tyson Jackson
4. SEA MLB Aaron Curry
5. NYJ QB Mark Sanchez
6. CIN OT Andre Smtih
7. Oak WR Darius Hayward Bey
8. JAX OT Eugene Monroe
9. GB DT B.J. Raji
10. SF WR Michael Crabtree
11. BUF DE Aaron Maybin
12. DEN RB Knowshown Mareno
13. WAS DE Brian Orakpo
14. NO CB Malcolm Jenkins
15. HOU OLB Brian Cushing
I'll update more soon.
The Lions just chose their pick #33. Delmas, corner from Western Michigan.
I'm actually somewhat disappointed with this draft after day 1. Stafford went for a record contract, I thought he was going to be a little cheaper, but it just doesn't feel that way to me. His contract still feels a little higher than I expected.
Pettigrew is a TE that can help block, but he's not really "in the trenches" help. I always kind of considered a tight end as a nice luxury to have; not an offensive staple. Though with a superstar TE, maybe he will be an every down player? We haven't seen that very often.
And Delmas also seems like a pretty good player; he reminds me of Polamalu. but again: where's the help in the trenches?
I guess I don't understand what the Lions were doing at first glance. I thought they wanted to get bigger and tougher and build from the trenches. But so far, none of their first three players has been a lineman, nor have they filled their hole at MLB unless they are seriously planning on running with Paris Lenon again.
It's very clear to me that they are going for value rather than need. It's a little tough for me to take personally because I have always looked at the draft as a jigsaw puzzle in which you try to find the best pieces to fit the holes.
So far though, the Lions have gotten some good, physical, Nasty players with talent. They just weren't at the positions I thought they would be in.
I'm thinking that the Lions target some bigger bodies for a DT and an MLB with their two picks in the third. Maybe? I dunno, I'm a little stumped as to what they might do at this point.
Nice Nubs - Nice. (from my wife's iPhone glad i got her this thing but typing is awkward.)
Isphet -- I'm happy so far for one reason:
Mayhew said that they had so many holes, and so many marginal players that they were going to take the best player available irregardless of position becuase really -- how many roster spots couldn't be improved??
They are sticking with their plan. And ignore most of the national media (as usual) -- they got stafford for much less than Condon wanted. Mayhew didn't fold.
Did they gamble on that pick? Absolutely! His success for failure will be their success or failure. If he succeeds -- Mayhew and Schwartz will -- and they will be extending his contract in 4 years. If not, they will all be gone in 4.
I'm going to give them their shot and my full support.
Pettigrew is an extra blocker, TE, and will be slot WR. He was best talent there.
I think they wanted Ziggy Hood to drop one more spot, but didn't have any of the LB or DT left rated above Delmas after he went.
Noticed Rey and Laurinitis lasted into 2. There are a couple guys the have targeted in 3.
I see a DT and LB in 3 depending on who slides. My biggest surprise is no trades, but they did hold pat and take the BPA.
Pettigrew, Stafford, and Delmas are all players that easily termed building blocks.
Remember, no more Millen reaches for need. Go Mayhew - keep sticking to the plan.
BTW - if Stintim is there at 65 (and he may be)-- I think he is the pick.
Kevin Smith dropped into the 3rd, and teams were scrambling to go get him. There will be a player like that this year too. If Lions trade a pick at this point, it will be 65. BUT - not so sure they will. Mayhew seems more content to sit pat and take BPA instead of flitting about like Millen.
In the long run, this will best serve the Lions. Remember, there are so many holes that while we all have our favorite one to fill first, the Lions may have a different thought.
I've got an idea as to how I'm going to term this draft, hut there will be plenty of time to look at that.
At MLB -- maybe they liked what they saw in Dizon? He did tackle well in college, and could be a factor as an inside tackling machine -- negating a need for a Luarinitis? I've to think more on this...
yeah a little surprised but I do like what the Lions have done so far. I will admit it did cross my mind about Peetigrew if he was still there at 20, just because we have had so much trouble getting any consistent play out of the TE position, and the fact tat Backus needs help and the OC likes a good TE. So maybe this all works out well as you say detfan , building blocks. Its starting to look like a pretty darn good and young offensive unit that will grow together , with weakest link at LT. Maybe they feel good about Loper's capability.
I don't know much about Delmas. But apparently Schwartz and Cunningham felt he was a better talent than Rey or Laurantis - really curious, but they are the experts. Just who is our MLB now? A rookie out of the 3rd round? Lenin?
Read Cunningham's latest article on the defense on DetLions, interesting read. Maybe he already knows who he wants running downhill as his MLB. Seems to like what he sees in his DLine so far.
TRUTHFULLY
i think this could of been the best ever draft day one-it turned into the worst could of easily addressed the mlb but ignored it got the top kid from my school=wmu but mags and laurintus were still there this proves once and for all-these guys are for ticket sales onley-fire them all and start over-these guys suck even worst than the worst m-live blooger the sooner ther gone the better signed the wize chief!!!
well Chief its a great question for Mayhew. Why the safety when you had the only other top rated ILB's there for the taking. Must be something they didn't like.
Detfan you do have a great point:
They've just started the process by filling positions in a different order than we expected. I would have chosen MLB DT and at least one O lineman as the most important positions to upgrade; all other factors considered equal. But that's not the way they went, probably because of the talent they saw still available in Pettigrew and Delmas.
It's not like the Lions have drafted players that they already had positions for. Pettigrew is kinda like the Aaron Curry of TEs this year; a complete player with a nasty streak to boot. And Delmas is the prototypical hard hitting safety that actually scares receivers away from those over the middle routes.
So far the Lions HAVE gotten three starters, and by the looks of it three pretty good ones with a lot of talent; not just more talent than what the Lions already had, but talent that stacks up well with the rest of talent in the league at those positions.
I guess we all overestimated the guys in the trenches at the top of the draft like Oher, Malauga, Lauranitis, Ron Brace, etc. The Lions had their chances to get all of those guys and they didn't take them.
I won't bother posting the next picks because I am so far behind.
I have to agree with all that the Lions must have seen they have NO ONE at safety and TE.
Seriously, Campbell is gone. You have John Owens who can block, and you have Fitz who can catch. This guy does both.
And it tells you something else. THEY LIKE JORDAN DIZON. My fear was Rey and Laurinitis wouldn't be there when the Lions drafted at #33. Both were there and they opted to go with the safety. I also thinks this speaks to the healing power of our injured safety as well.
You may see the Lions still try trading into the second round.
Schwartz said he wanted a thumper for a MLB, someone who turned guys sideways. Maybe ILB Brinkley from Carolina in rd 3? Or waiting for next year?
Beatty's gone.
Alexander can have time to heal right, and a safety trio of Alexander, Bullocks and Delmas will be set for quite a few years.
Lions weren't the only ones with LB need who passed on Laurinitis and Rey -- some teams 2 or 3 times as well!!
Delmas was coveted by qutie a few teams as the top safety for his CB-like cover skills, and his hitting ability.
They got the top S and TE. Not too bad.
Jordan Dizon occured to me as well. Remember, they had him in the middle during minicamp. Could he still be in the picture at MLB? Something tells me yes -- just like I wrote a few weeks back...
these are just my snap judgements quick, of course. haven't read up or looked over who is taken and who is available.
Who do you guys think the target at the top of 3 will be??
The way things went today...I have no clue!
DetroitSims
Yep, I wasn't right on any of my picks- my GUESS is brinkley ILB, he's big and see how SC did when he was out injured.Some risk there tho. Then Mich DT for the next 3rd rd pick.
Well I can say this when the Lions drafted Peetigrew my jaw dropped to the floor I thought what have they done but, think god for fiends they have no ties to the Lions other than me. They said that was a great pick and we will be very happy with it. I hope he's like Jason Witten. Delmas I like that pick if we didn't take him the Pats would have. Om the MLB I see it as well that Dizon maybe the guy Schwartz did say he liked him and wanted him at Tenn. so we will see.
I see where they are building every where to get the best talent around.
Go Lions
LionWing19
I do like the Pettigrew pick.
With more teams moving towards the 3-4 defense, a power running game with a blocking TE will counter this defense. Teams will have to guess right with the run blitz. It has our big six uglies, along with a FB, against thier front 7.
Also like the Delmas pick. If Alexander is healthy, we could have two big hitting safeties who also played CB early in thier college careers.
To add onto the Delmas pick. Having to cover safeties with CB skills would allow Gunther to use his CB blitz package while having the safeties and linebackers shifting over. That was one of the biggest reasons I wanted Curry. Versitility with the linebackers to cover the position vacated by a blitzer.
A pettigrew scouting report that is interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uclqH6Hy-S8
If anyone doesn't understand the drafting I will try to explain it in short since I don't have a lot of time right now.
When setting up the draft boards in the war room players are listed by talent overall and then another list is made by talent at each position.
It is obvious that Stafford was there number one at his position and it looks as though they do have a plan to try and bring him along the way many believe is the correct way, riding the pine for quite a while learning everything about being a professional as well as a player. I don't personally feel this pick but of course I have hope that it will work out.
So next Pettigrew, he was on the top of their board at the TE position. Many times teams will draft the highest player on their board at a certain position it's called drafting BPA. He was number one on their board at the TE position and very well could have been their number one on the overall board as well. If that was the case at that point there isn't even any debate on who they pick. I might also add that the Lions could use an upgrade at just about any and every position on the team I think only the kickers and long snapper were the only positions that were not going to be drafted.
Next on Delmas it is the same thing as Pettigrew. They took who they had ranked number one by the individual position. This most likely over road their BPA list by overall position but only the guys in the war room know for sure.
Many scouts and analysts will grade the Lions very high this year as they got three players whom many considered to be number one at their individual positions. Even though the fans wanted to see other positions filled first the harsh reality of the situation is that the Lions could have used upgrading at every position and why not take the Best Possible available (by position) with each pick, that is the way many of the teams draft in the NFL. I hope this made sense, I didn't have a lot of time to sort it all out tonight. After you guys get your feelings out of it you will understand the Lions nabbed three players at the top of their positions on their draft board with their top three picks, how is that not winning on draft day?
Lik
This isn't going to make me any too popular with many Lions fans, but I think the Lions had a solid day 1 draft.
We all know that no matter who we drafted we're likely to be a top 10to 15 pick next year, so I totally agree with Mayhew saying don't judge the draft today, judge it 3 years from today. Reality is, what other choice do we have?
I also agree with coach Schwartz's quote of letting the draft come to the Lions rather than the other way around. After Curry it was a huge drop in talent in the LB pool, so why risk drafting one that doesn't fit team philosophy?
The "If season" can be divided into three segments. 1 - pre draft, 2 - draft, 3 - post draft. The draft is only a part of the between seasons, so lets see what the roster is when training camp opens, before condemning this draft.
On a side note, the biggest huh???? of the day easily went to the Raiders and their first pick. What a refreshing change Lions fans its usually us and our "Brian Calhoun" picks.
Looking forward to day 2 and suspect the Lions to hit a couple of homeruns with their third round picks, but with no picks in rounds 4 or 5 I'm sure there will be plenty of venting going on in the blogs. LOL.
Go Lions
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