Your thoughts and Analysis as the game is going on, and after it is over. Something you see? A trend, a play (good or bad)? A comment on the action? Breakdown or quarterly summary for those who can't catch the game?
Put It Here!
I'll be catching the game on VHS Tape Delay Sunday night.
Go Lions!!
25 comments:
Down, 14-0 zip already. The defense is playing "tentative" already. We'll see if any kind of in game adjustments are made by the coaching staff. My guess, is none- especially by the defense.
Sorry, I can't comment on the rest of this... 21 to zip and it's already starting to look hopeless.
Looks like the staff has made adjustments on D. Good to see. GB 27- Det 25. 5:17 left. Good to see the team didn't fold especially with the terrible officiating. Kudos so far to the coaches. Oops, Kita throws int.
Defeat out of the jaws of victory? Let's hope not.
Played poorly early, then played well to take the lead, then played terrible at the end (well at least Jon Kitna did). They played well to claw back in it even being down 21 -0. The fans were great and stayed until the last 2 picks. Some progress was made. ANOTHER int for TD??? These last 2 picks have deflated any progress shown. How will the team view this loss? How will they view Kitna? What will Kitna say this coming week? Will he be smart enough to just keep quiet or will he speak and just erode his position further? If he speaks, I think people will start calling for Stanton to start when he comes back. It will be the wrong thing to call for since Stanton will not be ready. It will all depend on how Kitna handles this loss.
I think Kitna has taken us as far as he is able to . Question is how long will Rod hang on to that idea before he lets go. He tries to give veteran players every opportunity, almost to a fault. When the pressure is on, all three years Jon has been here, he hasn't been able to come thru - except maybe once or twice. That isn't going to change. So do you lose the team or make a change. I also have to wonder if Jon still has effects from getting his bell rung last year.
No. He simply tries to do too much. If you look at all those picks, they simply jumped the routes, knowing the Lions were throwing to the slot guys in the flats. Once, shame on you. Twice, shame on me. Thrice, SHAM-WOW!!! (I'd like to get one of those things).
I am too mentally drained to comment on this game for about two days. I need to digest it some more, because (like Kita Bug)I was ready to watch Viqueens/Colts at the half, and not flip back.
-nubs
The Good:
-One of the bright spots, is it looked to me like Godser played well. But he really has been after calming down from that first preseason game. This should shut the mouths of the impatient "Cheirlibust" haters.
-Also Kevin Smith still looks like an excellent pickup. Glad to have him in the backfield.
-Bullocks knee seems to be good finally glad to see him in there again and all over the field as well. He had a nice tackle on the long pass to Jennings (he caught him from behind when Jennings really was in full stride).
-Colleto's play calling looks pretty good as well, nice to see us using the TE, that will help open up some of the defenses in the middle and for the running game as well. Now if we only had a quarterback that could actually throw the long ball or really throw the ball at all. Did I say that out loud?? Hmmmm....
The Bad:
-The Offensive line. Need I say more?
-The Defense. Better than last week but still needs improving.
-Has Roy forgotten how to run routes well? He looks like he is running his routes like he did before Martz came to town and straightened out his lumbering around like a klutz, he looks like he is counting his steps. In my opinion, predictable and poor running from one of our big men today. This was the main reason I was on the trade Roy campaign and that is hard to say since I do love his character and much of what he can bring to the table on game day. (I thought that much of his route running was corrected last year with the coaching and presence of Martz and Shaun MacDonald. But after watching today I think he has regressed a lot. Hopefully just a bad day from being down a lot again). I hate to see when a player isn't giving their 100% on ALL plays.
The Ugly:
-Now to the coaching staff and our fans... Quit drinking the Kitna Kool Aid, we finally played some good corner backs and his inability to throw the ball to a receiver in stride or until they are at the end of their route was exploited. He is a serviceable quarterback to have coming off the bench for emergencies and that is all, I just wish the coaching staff could see it. Pick one of the young guys and accept that they will have their fair share of mistakes as well until learning to read the defenses of the NFL. I'm not sure it can be much worse than it is now and if it is then we better get some more talent in here stat.
I'm sure there is more but I have to get back to work for now...
-Lik
easy to blame kitna
BUT ITS OUR DEFENSE-2 WEEKS IN A ROW DOWN 21-0
rod suppose to be a defensive guy but our d-is the worst ever-were making morningwig look good-its that bad-were averaging over 40 points against-sure kitna gave them some but still if we cant keep a team under 21 points in the 1st 1/2 were doomed-we wont win a game-i dont care who plays qb or runningback-it wont matter.
Down by 21 early. How does an NFL coach NOT get his team fired up after being blown out the previous week? The adjustments that were made through the middle of the game were encouraging. Questions: The picks that Kitna threw- were any of them audibles? Were any other receivers open on those plays? A LOT will reveal itself this coming week. Will Foster start? Will the team come out flat against SF? If they do, then you have to wonder if Marinelli is losing this team. If nothing changes then you have to wonder if Rod is too inflexible to do what is needed to win. That stubborn streak is what was needed to turn the locker room around but now coach has to adapt and may have to bend some cherished beliefs to be successful (for example the "out practice the other guy to start" law.). Kitna will have to start against SF. It won't be until the 5th or 6th game (or later) that we could even hope to see Stanton.
Marinelli has a "win now" mentality and I don't think he can sacrifice the "now" to better the team in the future. I don't think it's in his personality. He is a man of character and determination, no question. But is he wise enough to vary from his vision to do what is necessary. Maybe vary is the wrong word, is he wise enough to modify or adapt his vision to make this work?
This season may end up being lost. I can see Rod getting one last year if that is so, but after that, then what? How could WCF sr. NOT get rid of Millen?? Would he let Millen go after someone like Cower? IF (notice the BIG IF) we were suddenly Millen-less (Halelujah!- hear the angels singing?) who should we go after GM-wise?
I know, I know, it sounds like I am giving up on this season already. I have to keep my mind active to prevent the mental pain from driving me nuts! Either way, I believe a lot will be revealed in the coming weeks, especially this next one. Go Lions! PLEASE!
Stanton! For God's sake, play Stanton!
I also believe we should start Stanton. Why not. Buffalo and Denver both did it, and now we are a year or more behind them. They took the risk and went with developing their young QB. I like Dan O but between the two of them, Stanton seems to have more of the "intangibles". Much more mobile, makes plays - which is one of the reasons Rodgers is successful - if he gets sacked twice by Devries on those close encounters, a couple of Packer scoring drives stop. Did Avril ever play ? not sure why not with a mobile QB like Rodgers. Devries couldn't catch him - Avril would have. Did 5-0 play much, I only saw him once, where he stood up an OL, rode the block for a while then tackled the RB at the line of scrimmage. Looks like he is progressing well. Rod wants the best players on the field - so not sure why some of them aren't out there.
Would you guys stop crying for Stanton already?
Sure, you can cite success stories like Cutler and Edwards. But for each of those cases, how many cases do you see the opposite? Throwing in a young QB to start right away only to see him fail and never live up to expectations.
Don't you guys know the story of the QB that demolished the Lions on Sunday? He sat the bench for 3 years, and now is looking like an old pro. This is how QB's (with the RARE exceptions like Peyton Manning and the like) used to be brought up and "groomed". Furthermore, you're just going to skip over Orlovsky and hand the team over to Stanton?
Kitna is the QB, get over it. You might not be happy with the way he threw the game away on Sunday, but he still gives this team the best chance to win. To throw away the season after 2 games is just sad. With that reasonsing, I guess San Diego should pack it in, and Cleveland should start Brady Quinn for the reason of the season.
I'm not as rabid as most of the fanbase, but I've come to grips with the main problem of the Lions being the front-office. This team isn't going to get better until it starts bringing in talent and developing it. The next move should be for the Lions to get a new GM with a focus/history on talent scouting and keep Marinelli for one year. See how they get along/click, and then decide after that whether or not to seek out a new coach.
By the way, didn't Bill Cowher say he wanted to come back to football eventually, but wanted executive power along with his coaching position (a-la Mike Holmgren)? Doubt we could get him in Detroit though.
The Giants should have packed it in after their first 2 games of the season last year. Their defense was horrible.
I'm not saying that we're going to be the Giants of this year; I'm just saying that it's too early to throw in the towel on the season after two games.
I would bet money right now that the Lions are quietly looking around for a QB; either Simms or Culpepper, or maybe even trading for Alex Smith from SF. Whether or not they actually DO anything with them remains to be seen.
If I were the Lions, I would sign the best rental QB I could get my hands on THIS WEEK as an insurance policy, in case Kitna goes completely berserk and loses it again and throws INTs and has a meltdown in San Fran. You have to at least acknowledge that this scenario is POSSIBLE at this point after seeing him play the last 2 weeks.
There's a BYE week next week, so if Kitna completely implodes and it's clear that he's done, we'll have that week to get a rental QB some time to practice with the offense.
Here's what will really happen though: Kitna will play pretty well in San Fran, and he will be our starter for at least a few more weeks after the bye. He'll make it through the first half of the season, but somewhere towards the end they will have to play either Dan O. or Stanton. Marinelli will want to play Dan O. but Millen will try to force Marinelli to play Stanton; so your guess is as good as mine as to who wins that fight; but I would guess Stanton ends up starting by the end of the year.
Jreffy
It is of your opinion that Kitna gives us the best chance to win. It is of mine that he doesn't. How can it be any worse? Give the young guys a chance to play and I'm not just saying at quarterback; across the board.
This nonsense of starting vets just because they are vets is nonsense. I thought the coaching staff said they wanted the best players on the field? How can they determine that if they don't allow them to "put it on tape" (their words, not mine). Some players aren't exactly practice players, they are gamers and they may look mediocre all week in practice but on game day they are a whole different animal. Danny O has a nice arm, he doesn't have much mobility though which could be a problem with our offensive line. Drew is a gamer, he makes things happen. Give one or both a chance is all I'm saying. All I’m asking is for the coaching staff and fans not to be so closed minded, what we are doing isn't and hasn't been working so far. So what exactly is the harm in shaking the tree when it seems that nothing else has worked until now? Maybe just maybe we have a diamond in the rough sitting the bench somewhere... Case in point with Godser. Lets see what Cliff, Andrew, Cohen, and one of our quarterbacks can bring to the table. Maybe just maybe the vets will step up their game if they feel that their job is really in jeapordy, it's just a thought as I for one am growing tired of seeing the same players making the same mistakes week in and week out. Why keep bring in new talent and have them ride the bench? They will make mistakes true but their talent cannot be evaluated while they are warming the bench.
Lik
Oh one more thing, Jreffy changing quarterbacks should have been tried some last year in some of the blow outs. We are what 2 and 9 in the last eleven games excluding preseason... Open up your mind, that's how great teams build dynasty's, they get their youth on the field throughout or late in games.
Lik
Lik,
Your idea of "opening your mind" and throwing random players on the field to see who can play and who can't, sounds more like a recipe for spaghetti, throwing it against the fridge to see what sticks. Great for pasta, not so great for a professional NFL franchise.
Finding out who your players are is done through the offseason, preseason, and every day in practice. Are you trying to suggest that Stanton is some super-awesome game-saving QB, but the coaches aren't giving him the chance to prove it? You can honestly say "Drew Stanton gives the Lions a better chance to win". If that truly is your stance, than don't bother reading the rest of this, you've plainly lost your mind.
While he looked good in preseason, please remember he was playing 3rd string defenses, and also spent a more of his time on the run than throwing passes downfield to open recievers. Stanton can't even crack the 2nd string, but you think he might be some hidden gem?
You ask how it can get any worse? How about the Lions never even getting back into the game (and even having the lead for a handful of plays) with Stanton or Orlovsky in place of Kitna. Kitna did a fine job of leading the team down the field for a couple scoring drives/plays to put the Lions up one. And yes, he did collapse at the end with the picks. But if Stanton or Orlovsky were in the game, would those picks have even mattered? I'm not a professional coach, but I'm willing to bet you aren't either. You've got to realize that the coaching staff of an NFL team, no matter how poor, still probably knows a lot more about the talent they have than you do.
Do you see the Browns throwing Quinn on the field to see what they have? Do you see St. Louis calling it a season and starting all their backups? This isn't hodgepodge backyard football, it's a professional sport. If the Lions start putting in their scrubs and still getting blown out, what then?
Two losses is not the end of the season, despite what the fans may think or feel. To call it quits now is just ludicrous. Besides, what would that tell your players like Roy Williams and Calvin Johnson? You think they're going to want to play hard and stay with the team when their contract is up? I wouldn't.
I don’t remember me ever saying Stanton should be the one chosen. I merely stated when games are out of reach such as so many that has been why on earth are they sticking with the same players that have gotten them there in the first place. If one of the two youngsters has no chance of proving themselves or passing Kitna in the pecking order then why hasn’t been shopping other talent aside from Drew Henson? With your logic Godser would still be sitting the bench and in the short amount of time he has played he sure has looked better then both starting tackles. Kitna doesn’t have the arm to throw to these receivers in full stride and has clearly shown that for quite a while. He has under thrown, thrown behind, and pretty much just thrown to the other team for much of his career. This is nothing new, his numbers are pretty consistent his whole career, look them up. Here is some interesting reading someone posted on Kitna from the MLIVE forums… http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?id=1617167
What’s that old saying that goes something like; insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting something different to come of it. Well maybe it’s time to make some changes. The Big Tuna dropped half his team and probably put together a better team then the Lions in just a couple months, that is just disheartening to me.
Lik
Read these, I'm not the only one calling for change...
http://www.lionsunderground.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=8830
http://www.thelionsfanatics.com/tlfforum/index.php?showtopic=1482
http://www.detroitboard.com/index.php?showtopic=14170
Mlive, Freep, and Detnews, read them all I'm not the only one pointing out Kitna's short comings. The Lions should be real close to handing the torch off to one of the youngsters. Heck maybe we can offer some receivers for Alex Smith while in S.F. this weekend, we all know how much Martz loves our receivers.
Lik
Alex Smith is done for the year with a bad shoulder!
I know (I have hours a day to read the internet at work) but the truth is he is done in S.F. once in Martz's dog house, always in his dog house.
lik
Alex Smith? Seriously? Are we really that desperate?
This blog is beginning to sound pitiful. I'll admit, after the first game in Atlanta I was having a lot of misgivings about the Lions future and potential for this season. Following the Green Bay game though, I think we've at least got a shot at having a DECENT 5 to 7 win season. The defense showed that they can play and make stops, although I'll admit they need to find more consistency...very soon.
Keep in mind that Green Bay is not Atlanta. This isn't some vanilla team who's scraping the bottom of the barrel. This is a team that is playoff bound. With that in mind, there is no way we should have been able to recover from a 21-point deficit. Period.
Like the rest of you, I would love to see what Stanton brings to the table. But the truth is that if he plays at all, it shouldn't be until at least mid-season. Alex Smith should NOT be brought in under ANY circumstances because (1) he's injured and (2) I don't believe he's proven himself to be any better that Stanton or Orlovsky.
For better or worse Kitna IS our starting QB this season if we want to stay competitive. I agree that he played pitifully on Sunday, even before the interceptions. But he was also playing an outstanding defense with very little help from his O-line until it was stabilized by Cherilus.
With that in mind, if you guys are looking for any shining moments from the game, go back and look at Cherilus...particularly in that shotgun formation late in the game. He was looking like an all-pro out there on Kampman. He was doing it all, pushing him inside where he couldn't isolate and be one-on-one. Even matching up head-to-head and keeping with him step-for-step. After seeing that, I believe Gosder could be a franchise tackle for us. Hopefully he'll eventually replace Backus who was a better defender against our run that Green Bay committing two holding penalties on the few runs we had.
I'm not saying by any means that I'm happy with this team or that things shouldn't be going better. Only that many of you aren't giving credit where it is due. Green Bay has a tremendously good defense and seem to still have a dynamic offense with Rodgers. We were very much in the game in the 4th quarter against a team that will almost certainly reach the playoffs; which to me, is improvement considering the 1st game of the season. Also, don't put this all on Kitna, our defense is our primary problem and I think that's who we should really be blaming. Given a few more games I think we'll see 1 or 2 more W's in the win/loss column over the next 4 weeks.
-StreetWorm
Worm beat me to it.
Cherilus did an awesome job coming in at RT. I didn't hear Kampmann's name mentioned even once after he came in. If Cherilus doesn't have the starting job by next week, I'd be shocked.
As for putting younger players into the game when it's out of hand, I'm all for it. Perhaps Kitna should have been pulled after the 2nd pick, but in all honesty, are the extra few plays that took place between the 2nd and 3rd INTs be something so invaluable to the Lions and their young talent that fans are in an uproar?
As for referencing the local newspapers, why do you think I come here? To get away from all that garbage. I saw how the Detroit media treated a rookie QB thrown into the starting role, and I will never go to them for their opinion on anything regarding the Lions again. They have done more damage to this team, berating its players, owners, coaches, management, than they have helped.
Look at the successful franchises, you'll find a lot of things in common, including a strong and loyal fanbase, despite any hardships that come their way.
I wasn't completely serious about Alex Smith I believe he is done in S.F. and if Danny O or Drew Stanton aren't the answers or the coaching staff don't believe in either one of them he was just a suggestion of potentially untapped talent whom will probably be done in S.F. since it seems he is not in favor with Martz.
Kitna has played this way his whole career I'm not supprised really. He has good games and bad, he is what he is a servicable quarterback and at his age should probably be riding second string (I can count VERY few teams he would be starting on).
As for the Lions I will continue to root for them but it is getting old seeing the coaching staff moving so slowly with personal changes that just seem to make sense. It will probably be a matter of time on Kitna in my opinion sooner then later and I for one am all for it.
Oh and get over yourself with this blog this and that, just because someone disagrees with your opinion doesn't mean that they are wrong it means they have a different opinion. Again insanity is continually doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results... Case in point. Change is needed the sooner the better. Godser, Bullocks, and the corners were just the start more is coming and in my opinion not soone enough.
lik
I'm in the camp of still trying to win as much as you can, until they are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. The development of players is secondary.
There are some things I saw in the game I liked and I also disliked. Lets start with the dislikes.
Roy was terrible. There was the big drop. There was a deep ball that if stretched out before the ball passed him he would have gotten his hands on it. DetFan1979 can look at the tape. But if you look closely Roy does not lay out until after the ball gets to his finger tips. Then there was that silly 1st down signal when the Lions were behind. This guy is not a #1 receiver. Franchise him, trade him, and build the defense next year. The experiment with the two big wide outs is over. I’d somehow get Standeford on the roster, as he will be a better #2 guy next season.
Kitna played terrible, and something is up with this guy. He simply did not have his head in the game, much earlier than when he threw the picks. There was a play where CJ ran a deep out and Roy ran a flag pattern. Kitna threw to CJ who was double covered by Woodson and Harris, While the Safety would have had to come over to get Roy. Kitna simply threw into double coverage. The first pick was thrown to CJ in double coverage. I think he is pre-determining his throws and not reading the defense.
What I was really discouraged about and nobody is talking about the fact Dizon only got a handful of snaps.
What I saw that was good, may also been why Dizon was not playing. Lenon played much better this week. Cherilus was solid or better. He created some holes for a running game and kept Kampton off the QB. Bullocks played Safety like you need to have in this cover-2. IAF showed some push from time to time. I'd like to see what DetFan1979 has to say about his play. And CJ (although he had one bad drop) showed us why he, and not Roy, is the #1 receiver on this team.
Could the problem with Kitna be Roy? So he throws to a double covered CJ? Is it that Kitna feels Roy threw Martz under the bus? Just a theory.
I too would like to see Stanton, but not until week-11.
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