tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8276344251743982154.post6843269178589238128..comments2023-10-31T09:01:00.362-04:00Comments on Detroit Lions Fan 1979: Positional FlexibilityDetFan1979http://www.blogger.com/profile/02632685989381122197noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8276344251743982154.post-66552135246946779032008-04-20T09:52:00.000-04:002008-04-20T09:52:00.000-04:00Flipdskrip, I'm not a proponent of trading Roy...Flipdskrip,<BR/> I'm not a proponent of trading Roy unless you get a lot for him. Many are talking two lower #1's for Roy and our #1. I would not give Roy up for that. But, the Lions have to gauge how much they feel they can keep Roy. If they are willing to franchise him next year as a worse case scenario, then I would not let him go for the above trades.<BR/><BR/> Now if your proposing the #22 & #28 & Ware, for Roy and our 5th rounder, then I'd have to take that one, because that is like 3 - #1's. You'd get the speed rushing DE, and heading into the draft with the #15, #22, & #28, You could get the some great talent at MLB, OT, CB, and then get a good RB in round #2, then follow that up with another LB and DT in the 3rd round. Ok, take a WR with the 4tyh rounder.<BR/><BR/> Here is a problem with a proposed trade of any kind. You have to take the cap hit and eat Roy's portion of his bonus for the season, take on any players salary (which would be offset by loosing Roy's salary). So at that point the trade would be a wash, maybe the lions a little ahead if Roy’s salary was larger than any player they would receive. But you have to have cap space to sign the draft picks. The Lions are a little restricted by the cap. But if they got two #1's and Ware for Roy and a 5th rounder, you'd have to try to make the cap work. <BR/><BR/> With your proposed trade the Lions would be robbing the Cowboys, and I’d take a trade like that.JJLions20https://www.blogger.com/profile/14086949813455327048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8276344251743982154.post-16206497048674130182008-04-20T00:42:00.000-04:002008-04-20T00:42:00.000-04:00Hey guys I checked out the Landry Hat website. The...Hey guys I checked out the Landry Hat website. They have a lot of scenarios for a possible trade or Roy. I want to say up front that I do not condon losing Roy to Dallas however, I did give them this response on their site.<BR/><BR/>Hello Dallas fans,I am a die hard Detroit fan and would like to give a fans perspective on the proposed trade of Roy Williams. Rod Marinelli and Company are very excited about the posibilities with our big trees at wide receiver and not going to give Roy up unless it is a deal that they just can’t pass up. Your trade ideas are ok but if I were Matt Millen, I would ask for 22 and 28 and DeMarcus Ware in exchange for Roy and our 5th. Why Ware, you might ask? He would play DE and give us the pressure we need up front to make that damn Tampa 2 defense work. I know you guys probably think that is a crazy proposal. I’m sure Jerry Jones will think so too. So in a nutshell, this trade will never happen.<BR/><BR/>DeMarcus Ware had 84 tackles, 14 sacks, and 4 forced fumbles last season. He would be our answer at DE. They play a 3-4 where he is an OLB, but in a 4-3 that we play he would be an end. I don't know, some new fat to chew before the draft.flipdskriphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09985914594780576350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8276344251743982154.post-22153256547047443362008-04-19T23:32:00.000-04:002008-04-19T23:32:00.000-04:00steamrollerWith all due respect; I don't think the...steamroller<BR/><BR/>With all due respect; I don't think the Lions pull the pin on a Roy -Dallas trade. I would say it is a low probability.<BR/><BR/>If anything WERE to happen, I would rather see just Roy for the two #1 picks.<BR/><BR/>That could possibly give the Lions Harvey at #15, Connor or Mayo at #22, Balmer or Laws at #28, a back in the second (Forte, Smith), and then go tackle and wide receiver in the third. <BR/><BR/>On the Trevor Laws subject; what a great kid. I just heard ESPN radio interview a bunch of the draftees.<BR/><BR/>John Clayton was asking all the kids, "What are you going to buy with your first NFL pay check?" Most were coached and said jewelry or cars for them or for their parents.<BR/><BR/>LAWS: "A Tempur-pedic bed."<BR/>He was a VERY down-to-earth, quick witted, good kid with a great sense of humor.<BR/><BR/>He would also qualify as a Marinelli guy; smaller DT, strong, high motor. He wrestled in high school and loves lifting weights.<BR/><BR/>nobsnubberAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8276344251743982154.post-5505252443673760692008-04-19T23:31:00.000-04:002008-04-19T23:31:00.000-04:00Roy Williams from Detroit and a late round pick fo...Roy Williams from Detroit and a late round pick for Dallas's Bobby Carpenter ILB, and the #28 and #61. That is the Draftek scenario. Mayo would likely be available at #28. Mendenhall, or best available player at #15. Devin Thomas? Keith Rivers? Chris Williams? Kentwan Balmer? Branden Albert? I hope Dallas does it. I know you guys might not be too excited in talking about this, but as a Cowboys fan it is pretty exciting to think about getting another good target for Romo.steamroller78https://www.blogger.com/profile/12079880030343856135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8276344251743982154.post-67127915617285429542008-04-19T18:27:00.000-04:002008-04-19T18:27:00.000-04:00Hey you guys, I know every time I come back here i...Hey you guys, I know every time I come back here it is the same old thing with this Dallas Trade scenario, but if you want to hear all about it from the Boys perspective, go to http://thelandryhat.com , and go to the Truth's mock draft. In the comments, there are multiple Dallas fans discussing it right now. Get over there, and tell them what you think about it. I did. And speaking about positional flexibility. Akin Ayodele played defensive end in college, outside linebacker for the Jags, and inside for the boys. He isn't needed in Dallas anymore, and that is one of the points I have brought up there. Go check it out. I brought up Akin Ayodele plus #22 and #28 for your Roy Williams and the #15, and these guys are all over it. I just want all them to hear your thoughts on it too, so I thought I would tell you about it. See you there! Great posts by the way DetFan1979, but I would like for you to go back and see my updated mock draft along with todays post. I am starting to think Mendenhall doen't make it to #15. You guys might get Akin Ayodele and possibly Branden Albert and Jonathan Stewart with the Dallas picks though. Would that be worth Roy Williams from the Lions?steamroller78https://www.blogger.com/profile/12079880030343856135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8276344251743982154.post-3200223484719027682008-04-19T14:04:00.000-04:002008-04-19T14:04:00.000-04:00Positional Flexibility is very nice to have. But ...Positional Flexibility is very nice to have. But the desire and "high motor" are first. The first two-four rounds should be guys that are anchoring into starting spots soon. When you are teaching a young Derrick Harvey, you want him to get one spot and absorb it quickly. Same with CJ. <BR/><BR/>You let your vets cross-train. Alama-Francis last year---DE. This year, maybe some more info.<BR/><BR/>CJ---"Z". This year, maybe some "X" or "Y" stuff. The backup for "X" was McDonald and Furrey. They knew the offense, they are vets to the league and to the system.<BR/><BR/>Jared deVries, will need to know both DE spots and both DT spots and pray he can still be strong enough, and make an impression enough at one spot that he can stick. Or be good enough to be seen as the catch-all; the "Brandon Inge" type guy in case of injury or rotational needs.<BR/><BR/>Each guy is situational as well.<BR/>Take Greg Blue.<BR/>Lights out hitter; doesn't cover well. Good special teamer.<BR/>He's the fourth safety (or fifth). He makes this team right now just as a special teamer. What a great guy to switch with one of your safeties on the goalline. He can play the pass better than a backer, and hits like one, too. Those are the nuances of having a full, healthy roster during teh season. What a great luxury to have soemone like that. It's like a situational lefty in baseball that you bring in to pitch to one or two batters.<BR/><BR/>-nobsnubberAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8276344251743982154.post-90834626022277958792008-04-19T13:53:00.000-04:002008-04-19T13:53:00.000-04:00Great comments and discussion - keep it going! Ma...Great comments and discussion - keep it going! Mayeb I wasn't real clear wehn I was talking about how wher eis has the most impact is the 28 guys who are not starters, and even moreso in the last 15 spots. It is not that the last 15 spots ahve the most flexibility, but that if the ten above them do, it opens up more options for who to keep and develop. <BR/><BR/>Indy is able to develop players to fill holes because those "next ten" on their roster have good versatility -- which allows them to fill the bottom 15 with ST, young developmental guys, and further strengthen need areas and situational/rotational players.<BR/><BR/>I was definately stating that if there was just a bit more flexiblity -- a pearson versus an Idress Bashir and Lamarcus Hicks, - they don't try sneaking Baldwin on the practice squad, and he doesn't get picked up by another team. They subsequently hid him on IR just so the Lions wouldn't have a crack at getting him back. Too bad he didn't get injured here or the Lions would be looking at needing one less LB this offseason. You win some, you lose some. <BR/><BR/>I totally agree that most starters are/should be specialists, and that it is in the backups that are between the starters and last guys on teh roster that the flexibility adds to the options a coach has with their roster. <BR/><BR/>nobsnubber -- I'm thinking we'll all be enjoying one heck of a fish sandwich next week, and you are right about the "brown bread" from Ireland - I have a friend from there who got some for me one time, and I can't find anything exactly like it either. <BR/><BR/>also agree with you on the injury front -- as you guys may have ntoiced, the post got a bit lengthy as it was, so I knew I was missing some things. Lvoe the additions, and I'm looking forward to seeing some more!<BR/><BR/>Well, off to the next Soccer Game! Go Lions!DetFan1979https://www.blogger.com/profile/02632685989381122197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8276344251743982154.post-56414414347542028112008-04-19T12:46:00.000-04:002008-04-19T12:46:00.000-04:00When you look at the big picture, where the flexib...When you look at the big picture, where the flexibility comes in is that it allows additional roster spots for special team players and young kids to develop. DetFan1979 was making the point if there was a little more player flexibility, just one more position not used for (lets say a back-up CB or S) then Baldwin would not have been cut. <BR/><BR/>Getting Alexander reps at CB in the preseason could allow the Lions to keep a young CB to develop this year, because they have two depth positions covered. I agree player flexibility is more important in a back-up then a starter. But sometime the later round picks are later round because the player is limited. So that is why it is nice to have starters who have flexibility. Also if you have younger players as back-ups they typically only learn one position in the first year. Do being able to move a starter over and drop a rookie into the position they know would be advantageous.<BR/><BR/>I think we are all saying the same thing. It is nice to have, and you need some players with position flexibility, but you need a lot of players who are really good at the one position they are playing.JJLions20https://www.blogger.com/profile/14086949813455327048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8276344251743982154.post-27203605200416129362008-04-19T11:24:00.000-04:002008-04-19T11:24:00.000-04:00remember-the lions have had there backup qb's play...remember-the lions have had there backup qb's play receiver more than once.as far as bradly goes-look how he changed position-wonder if they ever thought of using him at linebacker? and with furry as bad as our secondary was wonder why they dint try using hom with our umpteen receivers we had-i think alot of this flexibility comes when someone gets hurt or isnt doing the job-thats how woody got his shot-and hopefully they give a backup guard a shot at tackle if hes not starting-need to have your best guys on the field as much as possible-hated it when they wouldnt play cj-thats just dumb to not have your best out thereCHIEFGER139https://www.blogger.com/profile/10541341856809330039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8276344251743982154.post-56993609729509226232008-04-19T11:00:00.000-04:002008-04-19T11:00:00.000-04:00JJLions:I see what you're saying about positional ...JJLions:<BR/><BR/>I see what you're saying about positional flexibility, but I think the issue at hand is that you're only evaluating 1st round talent. <BR/><BR/>Generally, I think Marinelli wants his 1st rounders to be specialists because they are expected to be starters in this league (which I think you touched on, but I'd like to expound on it). They should be the absolute best they can possibly be at one position. So if they're playing both DT and DE then you have a problem because they can't focus all of their mental capacity on one or the other (which is basically the subject of DF1979's article). A better way to evaluate Rod's outlook on flexibility would be to evaluate who he picks in the mid rounds, (i.e.: 3rd-5th round picks) or possibly even 2nd rounders. For instance, G. Alexander is primarily a safety but he could probably fill in at CB if absolutely necessary. Also, 5.0. sounds like he may be switching between DT and DE. So it's not as if flexibility isn't valued, it's just that first rounders have a different set of expectations.<BR/><BR/>Also, I think one thing that wasn't covered is that flexibility isn't as important at some positions as much as others. This is especially true of offensive skill positions. RB, WR, and QB don't really offer too much flexibility. Sure, some of them can return punts or kickoff's, but flexibility between your natural position and special teams is a bit different from being flexible between two different positions on offense and defense (in my mind at least, maybe some others disagree). <BR/><BR/>I'm not saying there aren't cases where players can go back and forth and are 'skill position' players. For example, many think Reggie Bush would be better off as a slot receiver, and we all know that Furrey converted to WR from a safety position. However, even when these players have the ability to play a different position, this doesn't usually translate into actively playing those positions. You never see Furrey practicing with the defense.<BR/><BR/>So for me, it basically comes down to this. Positional flexibility is valued and deemed necessary by Detroit's coaches. But too much flexibility renders a team useless because everyone can do the same thing but no one is particularly good at any one position. Also, there are two general areas where flexibility is deemed as counter-intuitive.<BR/><BR/>1) First round draft picks. <BR/><BR/>This is because they are supposed to become starters in this league and generally starters don't need to be all that flexible...you want them to be the best they can at the position they play.<BR/><BR/>A general rule to follow (which I think was outline by DF1979) is that as the value of the pick decreases (i.e: goes into later rounds) flexibility becomes a more highly valued asset.<BR/><BR/><BR/>2) Skill position players. <BR/><BR/>In this case it's not so much that they aren't able to play other positions, it's more that the traits of skill positions are incompatible with other areas of the offense. a QB is too valuable to try any other position. a WR is generally too tall and lanky to be a RB, and RB's are usually too small and beefed up to play WR.<BR/><BR/>Also, it's difficult to translate those skills over to the defense because you don't want them too worn out to play their natural position.<BR/><BR/>-StreetWormAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8276344251743982154.post-31257313053568479302008-04-19T08:04:00.000-04:002008-04-19T08:04:00.000-04:00This blog gives some interesting insight. The que...This blog gives some interesting insight. The question becomes is how much does Rod value Personal Flexibility over the value of a highly rated specialist. Lets look at some of the players rumored to be a fit for the Lions.<BR/><BR/>Harvey - I'd say there is very low amount of Personal Flexibility. He's a DE, maybe he could play both sides, but that's not that much flexibility. <BR/><BR/>Mendenhall, he's basically a tailback. I have not seen him mentioned as a ST player, or pass catching abilities that are that special, you can use him as a slot receiver. Once again Personal Flexibility pretty low. <BR/><BR/>Mayo is an OLB who has the speed and skills to play MLB. High flexibility. Flexibility high. <BR/><BR/>Connor, he played OLB most of his career and moved to ILB in his senior year. Good flexibility as he is forecasted as a ILB, but he could also play OLB. Lofton, Pretty much an ILB, not as much Personal Flexibility. <BR/><BR/>When it comes to OT there are a lot of Personal Flexibility issues. Who can only play RT, who can be moved to LT, who can also play Guard.<BR/><BR/>I think most LB's can play special teams because they are typically hitters who can run, and they have decent size. But the ones that are a little more crazy and intense will excel at special teams. <BR/><BR/>So the question is how much does Rod weight Personal Flexibility on his draft board. Is it worth enough to stretch and take Mayo at #15? CJ gave very little in the Personal Flexibility area, yet there was little debate in the Lions camp on that pick. Sims is only a WLB although he did play some special teams, and he was Rod's first pick. So I have to conclude Personal Flexibility is not an essential characteristic, especially with the first pick. But it does come into the thought process. I still think Harvey is the Lions best option if he is available at #15, but drafting both Mayo and Dizon is still very intriguing to me. <BR/><BR/>I think sometimes that Personal Flexibility comes down to athletic ability and football character. A great athlete, one with plenty of speed, has more potential for Personal Flexibility. But that athleticism has to be combined with the attitude that the player is willing to learn as much as they can, and will play where ever they are asked, just to get on the field.<BR/><BR/>One week to go,,,,JJLions20https://www.blogger.com/profile/14086949813455327048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8276344251743982154.post-39809494615731498222008-04-19T03:55:00.000-04:002008-04-19T03:55:00.000-04:00The other thing you miss, and I know you would cov...The other thing you miss, and I know you would cover it is...necessity ("The Mother of All Invention"). The reason positional flexibility is SO important is because of the things you can't dictate during the course of the season. The injuries. The Lions did a really great job of bringing guys up from the practice squad and having them know there assignments. The reason you may need two or three people knowing one spot is to fill in for injured bodies. Every year it seems one position gets hit hard (usually the DB's or WR's)with the injury bug, and they'll need to step up to that challenge when it comes.<BR/><BR/>nobsnubberAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8276344251743982154.post-71715378223073709162008-04-19T03:49:00.000-04:002008-04-19T03:49:00.000-04:00Broiled whitefish please.And the best bread I have...Broiled whitefish please.<BR/><BR/>And the best bread I have ever eaten was something called "brown bread". When I went to Ireland, every restaurant served it. It was semi-sweet and very good; not a pumpernickel and never found in recipes here. I've found some bakeries that have things I like, but I can't find anything close state-side. Some things may be 80% as good, but not quite there. Not a cracked wheat, not a rye.<BR/><BR/>What we need is to find our "brown bread". The perfect match. We have certain pieces; we are close to 80%, but don't have the right blend on our defensive line.<BR/><BR/>We have the shifty speed back (Calhoun) if he can stay healthy; we have the cut back guy (Bell);we don't have the pounder. <BR/><BR/>I'm still looking for the "brown bread", and I think the chef's are getting close to the right recipe. We'll see what ingredients get added next week.<BR/><BR/>PS Where could I find that Lionel/"People Mover" train. That would be COOL!<BR/><BR/>nobsnubberAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8276344251743982154.post-13839303435755169452008-04-19T01:29:00.000-04:002008-04-19T01:29:00.000-04:00Wha_? Can you say that again?Actually that was pre...Wha_? Can you say that again?<BR/>Actually that was pretty good. It made sense, when I finished reading the whole comment.<BR/><BR/>Hollyweed88Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com